#Allegri-IN or #Allegri-OUT After Juventus' Last-Gasp Lazio Loss?

[00:00:00] I'm Alex Rodriguez and I'm Jason Kelly. From Bloomberg, this is The Deal. Each week,

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[00:01:31] Cedric at Crawl Coals is a Bay at Crawl Coals production.

[00:01:35] So many black shirts in the penalty area. Genduzzi still Genduzzi, this Maroussage with the final moment of the game.

[00:01:51] His first goal in two years and Adam Maroussage does follow up his goal with Montenegro.

[00:01:59] Igor Tudor was brave. His players followed his game plan to the letter, a clean sheet for Mandas and a winning goal for Maroussage.

[00:02:07] Full time score at the Stadio Limpico. That's your one. You've entered snail.

[00:02:12] There you have it. The big story from the past week, Andy Easter weekend, match day 30. It's a warm welcome once again to another episode of Serie A Chronicles.

[00:02:23] This is Patrick Kendrick alongside Meena Rizuki and Nikki Bandini as ever and producer Simon.

[00:02:28] What a weekend it was on Easter before we get into all of this area action and that winning goal from Adam Maroussage, which gave Igor Tudor a maximum point on his first game in charge.

[00:02:41] How were your respective Easter weekends and how much chocolate did you eat roughly?

[00:02:46] Disgusting him out.

[00:02:49] You did that warning not to eat a whole Easter egg in one sitting that I saw doing the rounds.

[00:02:55] Problem is, right? There's a chocolate shop in Brighton. It does a really good salted caramel egg.

[00:03:01] I buy myself that every year. It's expensive egg because it's an expensive chocolate shop. I buy myself that every year.

[00:03:05] I already have that and then I bought myself some other Easter chocolate I saw some kind of bueno like Minnie Egg.

[00:03:13] Then my family showed up three steps and I was given unexpectedly some...

[00:03:19] Mum has given me some honey Easter bunnies I haven't eaten yet.

[00:03:24] And my niece has brought me a lint chocolate egg as well. I'm suddenly just like drowning in chocolate, which I'm surprisingly good at putting away with one too.

[00:03:36] I'm eating my chocolate things but I haven't got actually what I really love at Easter to my...

[00:03:41] Not really to my shame. I'm very much middle age these days, but my favourite thing it used to be,

[00:03:46] which I didn't get this year is still that the Italian kind of axey eggs they always make me happy and think of me as a kid.

[00:03:52] But we've come with a surprise as well.

[00:03:54] Exactly.

[00:03:55] Not just the kind of ones. That's what they were saying to me this weekend.

[00:03:57] The difference between Italian Easter eggs in English Easter eggs is you always get a little gift inside the Italian eggs.

[00:04:04] How was your chocolate count?

[00:04:06] We are not middle age. You have to take that line.

[00:04:09] I'm sorry about what?

[00:04:13] I just...

[00:04:17] We're not middle age, but take it out.

[00:04:19] No, no, you can take it back.

[00:04:21] That was a horrible way.

[00:04:23] In our first season, not first season, that's the fact.

[00:04:27] Well, just going off average life expectancy instead of thinking about...

[00:04:31] Oh, gone. This is a happy conversation isn't it?

[00:04:34] It's not a whole piece of stuff.

[00:04:36] It is... It is comfortably moving up to the 90s which means we're quiet away away.

[00:04:40] Okay?

[00:04:41] Let's not get there and we took our Covid vaccine this for whatever it is and I'm not accepting this crap.

[00:04:47] You might think I'm a witch but I hate the taste of sugar unless it's in a Coca-Cola can.

[00:04:56] So I don't... I hate chocolate.

[00:05:01] I know it's crazy, I hate chocolate, I hate ice cream so I'm a witch.

[00:05:05] You know, actually funny story.

[00:05:07] On my first trip with my boyfriend we went to the Amalfi coast and he had done this whole amazing trip for us.

[00:05:15] Because my favourite movie growing up was something called Early You with Robert Downey Jr.

[00:05:20] And we traced all the steps.

[00:05:22] And in one of them we go and he gets me this ice cream.

[00:05:26] Yeah, and he's like, you know, he's so like enthralled by it because he's obsessed with ice cream.

[00:05:30] And I'm so embarrassed to be like, I don't like it because you're digging me to this particular shop they had researched so much.

[00:05:36] And you know, I'm sort of eating it and then joking it with me.

[00:05:40] You can't see that I'm not eating the ice cream.

[00:05:45] And you just see this puddle of like chocolate ice cream on the floor that I'm like crap, I'm now littering.

[00:05:51] It was like a disaster but yeah, it's a bad accident.

[00:05:55] You don't really don't like it.

[00:05:57] It's not just that you wouldn't go out of your way to have one.

[00:05:59] You actually don't like the taste of it.

[00:06:01] No, I don't like the taste of it at all.

[00:06:03] I don't like anything really sweet.

[00:06:05] Like people walk into these bakeries and see like you know a panor chakula or anything like their mouth waters or like pastries or cakes.

[00:06:13] It genuinely makes me feel sick.

[00:06:15] Like it's a really bizarre thing so but it's something I don't like to tell because people just think I'm just like a witch or something which maybe I am, I don't know.

[00:06:23] Sure that's what makes a witch.

[00:06:25] No, totally.

[00:06:26] And surely there's probably got some benefits as well in terms of your teeth and your waistline and all that sort of stuff.

[00:06:32] So you know if I...

[00:06:33] I think we'd all like to wear you know, I love chocolate.

[00:06:35] But there we go.

[00:06:36] So I got two possible segues from what you both said there.

[00:06:39] One was Nicky saying that she's very good at putting away chocolate which is unlike Juventus scoring goals and the other possible one was

[00:06:46] mean to talk about life expectancy and thinking about whether Max Allegri does have long to live on the event as bench.

[00:06:52] So I think we'll start with...

[00:06:54] What's the difference between the edges and like Juventus?

[00:06:56] With the latter, yeah of course.

[00:06:57] Absolutely.

[00:06:58] I'm talking very metaphorically as to his long term career credentials in Chirin.

[00:07:04] I'm not ruling him out from taking another job elsewhere but this has been an ongoing theme now.

[00:07:09] I mean we'll start with you because it's Juventus related and feels like a bit of a disservice to Latia to start to lead with Juventus.

[00:07:16] But I still think Juventus again losing seven points from the last nine matches is the big story here and where do you stand now?

[00:07:26] I know you are an Allegri collite.

[00:07:29] I know you defend him to the hilt.

[00:07:31] I'm fond of what he's achieved in his career as well but I saw a very interesting statistic earlier on today which was talking about how Simonin Zaghi's taken

[00:07:40] next number of matches to get is 100 wins and the only person that did it faster I think was Allegri.

[00:07:45] We have this huge difference don't we?

[00:07:47] What he achieved in his first spell way, he has so much credit but he seems to be rapidly running out of credit now

[00:07:53] and it feels like whereas before it was the online Juventus fans who were leading the Allegri out chance now it seems to be creeping in as well to some of the match going supporters.

[00:08:03] What do you think?

[00:08:05] Yeah I mean to be honest a lot of the match going supporters have been against him too.

[00:08:08] I think it was the Ultras really that are pro Allegri.

[00:08:11] I feel like the rest of people I think are good now 80% people want Allegri out and all honesty.

[00:08:18] I think that were left with the Ultras and potentially just me who was still flying the flag.

[00:08:23] It is an interesting thing because I once did this podcast and talked about Conte being he should be sacked after losing for into in the Champions League

[00:08:33] and I think back about that all the time I think that was such a ridiculous take and I don't know ever since then I've completely changed my mind about sacking coaches

[00:08:42] and I'm always keen on keeping them as long as possible on the bench until they see improvement.

[00:08:48] So I have defended purely, I defend Allegri, I will defend and Zaggi won in the first when he came after Conte and people were unhappy with the direction he was taking the team in

[00:08:57] and felt that they had dropped mentality wise.

[00:09:00] With Allegri though I have sort of reached the end of my tether not because I think he's making a mistake but I do think that there's a genuine disconnect at the team right now.

[00:09:10] It's really bizarre because I wrote this.

[00:09:13] I was working on Saturday night to cover Chelsea Bernice so I was covering the Premier League for TRT and I watched the last minute goal

[00:09:25] and I don't know what happened, honestly I don't know what happened, I just burst into tears and I don't remember.

[00:09:31] The last time I felt so much emotion watching my club, I think it's because I've been so used to them never really being this awful of family.

[00:09:39] You know what it is? It's the first time that I saw this team and didn't see the hope anymore, didn't see that potentially it's going to change or didn't see it like I'm like this is it keeps getting worse

[00:09:49] this is year on year end and I and the one person I did trust was bringing Max Allegri might manage to do something special

[00:09:55] and I'm now realizing that maybe this like if he can't get through to this team at this point like I don't know where to go

[00:10:01] and I don't blame this on him. I just I still think he's a terrific coach, I don't care you can come for me as much as you like

[00:10:08] and for people who sit there and say that he's a dinosaur and all this stuff like the guy was in competition to challenging into for half of the season with the world

[00:10:17] most mediocre you've undersigned. So to say that I think is so far and to say that the players are regressing when you're seeing Western McKenny put on performances

[00:10:25] that he was never capable of putting on lot season who was demoted with the likes of leads when you're seeing Andrea can be as well being able to be so tactically intelligent

[00:10:34] and played different roles and before forming part of Luciano Spaletti's team, there are clear players who have made a step forward under Allegri.

[00:10:42] Yes, there are others who aren't shining and the team has massive there's a massive disconnect because I just feel like Allegri is used to like Antulotty

[00:10:52] like experience players is more of a man-manager who tries to extract potential of individuals perhaps not a tactician in the way that has rehearsed patterns of play

[00:11:01] and that is exactly what youngsters need. Youngsters can't be left to their own devices to sort of figure it out

[00:11:07] and that's why it works with Ronaldo because Ronaldo doesn't teach you. Not Ronaldo, I mean I'm saying any sort of like Sammy Cadira he doesn't need you to tell him what to do

[00:11:17] he knows what to do he just wants the freedom to do it and that's what Allegri does so well is that he manages the egos he manages the experience.

[00:11:25] I'm Alex Rodriguez and I'm Jason Kelly from Bloomberg this is the deal each week you're here as in conversation with business icons

[00:11:35] this show will explore deal making across sports media and entertainment that is a harsh lesson in business sports is not as simple as bringing a bunch of big

[00:11:44] names together I want to do another stop you outspeech opened up so many more doors the show is called the deal listen to the deal

[00:11:52] listen to the deal on Spotify

[00:11:56] at bed 365 we don't do ordinary we believe that every sport should be epic every home run every hit every inning every play from the moments

[00:12:07] that are legendary to the ones that fly under the radar whether it's a walk off grand slam or a base hit to center field whatever the sport whatever

[00:12:16] the sport whatever the moment it's never ordinary at bed 365 21 plus only must be physically located in Virginia gambling problem call 1 800 gambler at bed 365 we don't do ordinary we believe

[00:12:30] that every sports should be epic every home run every hit every inning every play from the moments that are legendary to the ones that fly under

[00:12:39] the radar whether it's a walk off grand slam or a base hit to center field whatever the sport whatever the moment it's never ordinary at bed 365 21 plus only must be physically located in Virginia gambling problem call 1 800 gambler

[00:12:55] but actually having rehearsed patterns of play is exactly what kids need and in a team that is full of kids and has lost a lot of importance in midfield from

[00:13:03] early to Pogbo obviously to now then you know having not flower of a top front no milk up front you know putting in the Yilders or Kiesel or Wazakin

[00:13:11] I mean they're not exactly like barring Kieser the others are not exactly there either young or haven't made a huge splash or have the experience

[00:13:19] necessary I think that it's so much to just keep saying allegly out as if some guys going to come in and you venture all of a sudden going to be like the next

[00:13:28] that's what worries me is that people are like look at Roma look at Dorosy this is all it takes you just need to and it's no that's not all it takes

[00:13:35] because we've had different coaches and it's been a disaster it is a step look we are taking steps forward because

[00:13:42] generally is a great supporting director and hopefully will change and there is this is a step forward from last season

[00:13:48] but this is there is an magic potion the squad needs vast changes in it the squad is not good enough for

[00:13:55] you ventures or what the expectations are from the fans and when people sit there and say that you know allegre out and this is what the problem is

[00:14:02] I don't know maybe a leg we need to be out and I'm worried now that we won't hit top four and I think that the teams no longer

[00:14:08] responding to him there needs to be a shock in the system but there's a copy tally a match tonight so let's see

[00:14:13] Nikki lots to unpack their meena reference the fact that you then to start it with a 4-3-3 which was a departure

[00:14:19] from what we've seen with a legory what did you make of cambia's or playing at right wing

[00:14:23] D'achille you're played for the first time in ten months and secondly if we look at it now

[00:14:29] you ventures are only two ahead of balania seven ahead of Roma and nine ahead of atalantra

[00:14:33] albeit they'll have to have a game in hand do you see over the next eight matches then being overhauled by

[00:14:38] a couple of those teams and possibly not even finishing in the top five

[00:14:43] it's the first time this is the first week when I've looked at and gone this is possible actually

[00:14:48] like this is no longer completely unthinkable I don't think it will happen

[00:14:52] but they have won one game out of the last nine and that win was against frozen on it in the 94th minute

[00:14:58] so it's not even like that win was a good win it's really been bad for a long time

[00:15:02] and you're asking me about the specifics of this game about D'achille about cambia

[00:15:06] so honestly Patrick I thought this was a dreadful game for portawarch

[00:15:10] it wasn't that enjoy the spectacle you didn't like the latter went about the business I thought there were quite bad

[00:15:15] that's your certainly had more about them I thought you get you to do

[00:15:18] like for a first game in charge you could look at it and think that there's there's more to

[00:15:22] to feel promising about I think they deserve to win 100% obviously it's a lovely ball from Grand D'Ause as well

[00:15:28] for the goal

[00:15:31] I perhaps will accept that my whole feeling about this game is probably wrapped up in my feeling about

[00:15:37] I watched a lot of football without goals in this weekend

[00:15:40] the Arsenal City game was definitely worse but it felt like I was watching screens for a very

[00:15:47] very long time without balls going near goals and this game was certainly part of that picture for me

[00:15:52] I agree with the substance of what Minger said

[00:15:57] I don't think I'll agree to fix this anymore

[00:16:00] I don't think that has to mean it's all I like rice fault

[00:16:02] I think we can say that recruitment hasn't been good enough

[00:16:04] we can say that there's problems that perhaps couldn't have been foreseen like what's happened with Pogba

[00:16:08] there's problems at board level clearly the whole thing has come apart and

[00:16:13] it needs to be rebuilt and those are difficult things that take more than a minute to fix

[00:16:18] but to me I agree without wanting to always bring it back to my

[00:16:22] my Arsenal fandom but it just really feels like the end of us in Venger where you can feel positively towards

[00:16:28] the person you could feel sad about the end of something but

[00:16:31] he's just not the person who's going to fix it anymore

[00:16:34] and it can also be true that maybe the next person won't fix it either

[00:16:37] because you and I am really good manager and he came into us

[00:16:40] and he wasn't going to be able to fix it right away because

[00:16:42] because it's not a one job one person straight away job to fix

[00:16:46] and frankly in that case I think even then

[00:16:50] you could easily have walked away from Nicolay Tetta before he has managed to fix it

[00:16:54] and I think now you can say a corner is clean and turned

[00:16:57] but in that case again for when to draw those parallels

[00:17:00] guess what Arsenal also spent a heap of money

[00:17:03] so are you going to prepare to do that as they go for a rebuild

[00:17:06] here are they prepared to stick with someone and to give them the back you may need

[00:17:11] and to put that time into someone because I think that's probably

[00:17:15] what you have to do to fix a situation like this

[00:17:18] and you can get stuck in our Maya to do a different comparison

[00:17:22] but still within England

[00:17:24] and all this time after Alex works and still I've been found the answer that's the right one

[00:17:30] so I think events are I think the first step is almost

[00:17:35] the events need to acknowledge the extent of the problem

[00:17:38] because it's on the one hand it's a luxury problem

[00:17:42] because I think the event in the current state still should be expecting

[00:17:46] to finish the Champions League space every season they would have done every season

[00:17:49] if it wasn't for the fact that last year they had the points penalty right

[00:17:51] they still would have finished third last season which is not what you're aiming for

[00:17:54] but the financial side of it what that means that should be a bare minimum obviously

[00:17:59] but I do think that to become something new

[00:18:03] to refresh just start becoming a title challenger again

[00:18:06] it has to be a serious refresh it has to be more than piecemeal

[00:18:09] and I think that's the acknowledgement in East Umeda event is

[00:18:12] but I run it clear

[00:18:14] go ahead Mina

[00:18:15] I was going to say I just think that you've entered a figure out who they are

[00:18:19] and I don't think that's clear at the moment

[00:18:21] and by that I mean there are two ways of being a football club

[00:18:24] you can be a club that builds a philosophy

[00:18:26] and ensures that that philosophy is indoctrinated into your squad

[00:18:30] from an early age and you have a pattern of play

[00:18:32] you have an established style of going for

[00:18:34] you know your likes of Barcelona for example

[00:18:36] or Brighton or whatever it is

[00:18:38] or Arsenal now

[00:18:40] or you're a team that is a pragmatic team

[00:18:43] which is a little bit of what Chelsea are

[00:18:45] they can chop and change

[00:18:46] they can bring in whoever the players they like

[00:18:48] but the whole point is to just extract the potential of players

[00:18:50] and they went for coaches that were capable of doing that at the time

[00:18:53] which was why they had so much success

[00:18:55] despite literally almost changing coaches every two years at the time

[00:18:59] and that was because it was a very well run club at the very top

[00:19:03] they depended so much on Reiner

[00:19:06] and Ramavitch

[00:19:07] and the way that this club was won

[00:19:09] and they spent a lot of money doing it

[00:19:11] and inventors have always leaned towards that direction

[00:19:14] which is you know we buy the best players a little bit of what Mara was doing

[00:19:17] it into we buy the best players and then it's up to you to try to figure out the best way

[00:19:21] but now it just seems like it's

[00:19:23] Juntilia is a man who is created for a philosophy

[00:19:26] he is a man who knows how to build with the philosophy

[00:19:28] who needs to be aligned

[00:19:30] with everyone on board

[00:19:32] to build this specific strategy going forward

[00:19:34] and he's not a pragmatist

[00:19:36] he's not a practical sporting director

[00:19:38] who's gonna go for a bargain

[00:19:39] you know

[00:19:40] so if you choose him

[00:19:42] you must continue to go through that route

[00:19:44] and if you choose a leg then you must also choose to continue going down that route

[00:19:48] and I think there's just a clash of ideologies all over the place

[00:19:51] which makes it very hard to understand who you ventors are

[00:19:53] and who they want to be

[00:19:54] so do you want to be a team that builds

[00:19:56] truly with youngsters

[00:19:58] then you have to understand a leg is not your guy

[00:20:00] and then you stick with Juntilia and bring someone else in

[00:20:02] and it can't be said down because the Dan is a pragmatist

[00:20:04] but if you do decide that you want to go for a pragmatic approach

[00:20:08] then Juntilia wasn't the guy that you should have gone for

[00:20:10] so this is where I'm like

[00:20:12] I don't know who you ventors are

[00:20:14] and there seems to be a huge disconnect at the top level

[00:20:16] it is such good foundations to build on

[00:20:18] sorry fact we should probably

[00:20:20] you're trying as a host to keep us moving

[00:20:22] but like the next gen project is

[00:20:24] at this point I would say a proven success

[00:20:26] there is talented footballers coming out of that next gen project

[00:20:28] who are contributing to your team

[00:20:30] and also contributing to other teams

[00:20:32] and said yeah this season

[00:20:34] so you have a base to build on

[00:20:36] but it needs to be more came in

[00:20:38] and you have a lot of play

[00:20:40] they don't have a unique philosophy

[00:20:42] they are all just really good players

[00:20:44] again it's a pragmatic approach

[00:20:46] we're going to collect the best individuals

[00:20:48] who play great sets

[00:20:50] or have different skills

[00:20:52] there isn't an ideology

[00:20:54] like you understand when you've got a Barcelona kid in your team

[00:20:56] you understand when you have a Dortmund kid

[00:20:58] you understand that

[00:21:00] you don't have that with you

[00:21:02] you've a is almost like a steer

[00:21:04] for Real Madrid

[00:21:06] and I just need them to decide on that

[00:21:08] and then if you are going to go

[00:21:10] have wasted five years

[00:21:12] to be honest I think once a legric

[00:21:14] goes the first time around

[00:21:16] you have sari for a year

[00:21:18] and you dispense with him

[00:21:20] you bring in Piedlo as well

[00:21:22] it's slightly rushed appointment

[00:21:24] you give him a season as well

[00:21:26] despite him winning trophies

[00:21:28] and then you've had three years

[00:21:30] with a legrie where

[00:21:32] you've not really gone anywhere at all

[00:21:34] and then you might be further along

[00:21:36] but obviously we can't go back in time

[00:21:38] I think history tells us that

[00:21:40] you've been doing a point of foreign coach

[00:21:42] even though he's a dan did play for the club

[00:21:44] and obviously he speaks the language

[00:21:46] typically you've been going with Italian head coaches

[00:21:48] and technically

[00:21:50] is it Italian

[00:21:52] having played for the Italian national team

[00:21:54] or being Brazilian-born

[00:21:56] are you on the other?

[00:21:58] absolutely

[00:22:00] are you on the foreign-born player

[00:22:02] at this moment in time to take

[00:22:04] Juventus forward but is there not

[00:22:06] an argument to say

[00:22:08] if he does get Belonio into the

[00:22:10] Champions League places would he not want

[00:22:12] to be the man to take charge of that

[00:22:14] first Champions League campaign

[00:22:16] you almost feel it feels annoying

[00:22:18] doesn't it I've built this why should i hand over to someone else

[00:22:20] to take

[00:22:22] it's a fascinating situation

[00:22:24] in that

[00:22:26] Belonio

[00:22:28] the start of February there was 20 points

[00:22:30] that's

[00:22:32] barely over

[00:22:34] two months

[00:22:36] recording on the second of April

[00:22:38] at bed 365 we don't do ordinary

[00:22:40] we believe that every sport should be epic

[00:22:42] every home run

[00:22:44] every hit

[00:22:46] every inning

[00:22:48] every play

[00:22:50] from the moments that are legendary

[00:22:52] to the ones that fly under the radar

[00:22:54] whether it's a walkoff

[00:22:56] grand slam or a base hit to center field

[00:22:58] whatever the sport, whatever the moment

[00:23:00] is that it's a really good

[00:23:02] game.

[00:23:04] It's a really good game

[00:23:06] plus only must be physically

[00:23:08] located in Virginia gambling

[00:23:10] problem called 1-800-Gamber

[00:23:12] the um

[00:23:14] 20 points gaps now two points

[00:23:16] and it's looking very plausible now

[00:23:18] that Belonio could finish above

[00:23:20] Juventus which is crazy

[00:23:22] I think it would be sort of

[00:23:24] romantically tragic for him not to take

[00:23:26] another season of Belonio and see where he can

[00:23:28] come from

[00:23:30] the

[00:23:32] uh the numbers already agreed

[00:23:34] years and and

[00:23:36] and salary.

[00:23:38] I'm taking that with a pinch of salt

[00:23:40] but I do think

[00:23:42] the reality is

[00:23:44] when we talk about these things

[00:23:46] um I think maybe fans don't always see it

[00:23:48] quite how it happens which I think agents

[00:23:50] have conversations with directors all

[00:23:52] the time and they may well be outlines

[00:23:54] of what could be a deal in place

[00:23:56] um but the um

[00:23:58] but if you're

[00:24:00] if you're Juventus do I think it could be

[00:24:02] good appointment I do and the reason

[00:24:04] I think it could be a good appointment actually is

[00:24:06] I think there's lots I like about Mottis football

[00:24:08] I think he plays a modern kind of football

[00:24:10] they have this sort of um quite clear

[00:24:12] identity they play in a fluid way

[00:24:14] which I think is

[00:24:16] something that

[00:24:18] if you're trying to move on and move

[00:24:20] with the times I think he's the right manager to do that

[00:24:22] but I think more than that having just said what I did about

[00:24:24] the young players there

[00:24:26] I think while I look at this but on your team what I see is

[00:24:28] just a whole bunch of players where I can say very clearly

[00:24:32] that player has improved

[00:24:34] the Cardboard of Solinion two seasons

[00:24:36] under Mottis scored double figures both seasons

[00:24:38] and now he's knocking on the door of the Italy team

[00:24:40] Calafiori who was

[00:24:42] not good enough to break into Marino's first team at all

[00:24:44] okay he went out a year at Basel

[00:24:46] he's coming to that team now he's been switched from

[00:24:48] a left back into a centre back and now he's starting

[00:24:50] and again knocking on the door of the Italian national team

[00:24:52] and I think it's just a little bit more

[00:24:54] focused in maybe some people thought he had

[00:24:56] some promise when he showed up there but he wasn't

[00:24:58] playing at the level he is now

[00:25:00] I think all through that team you look at players

[00:25:02] and go well that player's got better

[00:25:04] And so when I look at Marino and I think

[00:25:06] well if your idea is

[00:25:08] let's get all these next gen kids in

[00:25:10] and let's actually see what we have here

[00:25:12] I think he's a good choice for that

[00:25:14] I think he's someone who I believe

[00:25:16] would take them on and make them better

[00:25:18] Is it the job that I think he should want

[00:25:20] frank conversations about what you vent

[00:25:22] as canon can't offer

[00:25:24] Belonio have put together something magical

[00:25:26] this season but

[00:25:28] realistically I think someone's going to sign

[00:25:30] Zergs say this summer

[00:25:32] you can't save us out but I think they will

[00:25:34] Lewis Ferguson may not be back there next year

[00:25:36] so you might not get to keep that project together

[00:25:38] and if you vent

[00:25:40] business is all hypothetical

[00:25:42] returning round to him and saying we're going to bring these next gen players

[00:25:44] back in for you and

[00:25:46] you know what we could probably

[00:25:48] get about 50-60 million euros

[00:25:50] go and get some players that are worth

[00:25:52] you having in the transfer window

[00:25:54] maybe even more

[00:25:56] then there is going to be a

[00:25:58] attractive proposition to him I think

[00:26:00] I

[00:26:02] Okay, I mean

[00:26:04] I don't actually believe any of this stuff

[00:26:06] is from what I understand

[00:26:08] about Tiago Mods and these conversations

[00:26:10] I agree with you entirely

[00:26:12] everything that I've been told

[00:26:14] has told me that he actually wants to stay

[00:26:16] else he started this project

[00:26:18] so I'm not understanding where all these headlines are coming from

[00:26:20] because I feel like

[00:26:22] that's been well established in the

[00:26:24] journalism community that he

[00:26:26] is not somebody who's yet

[00:26:28] sure and is leaning towards

[00:26:30] Tiago Mods and I'm not entirely sure how all these conversations have taken place already

[00:26:32] and when you've just had

[00:26:34] you've been to this management come out

[00:26:36] a few weeks ago and talk about

[00:26:38] relegation of being here for the long term

[00:26:40] I think it's normal to think of possible replacements

[00:26:42] I think Zedana is one that they will definitely look to bring in

[00:26:44] the question with Zedana is

[00:26:46] what he has with his family so he has

[00:26:48] it from what I understand is that he has a deal with his wife

[00:26:52] about the fact that she followed him around as a player

[00:26:54] but as a coach

[00:26:56] she calls the shots so she's like there are specific places that I don't you know

[00:27:00] I want to live in Spain

[00:27:02] this is my home now and that was a reason why he stuck around with Real Madrid

[00:27:04] and didn't want to go to Manchester United

[00:27:06] all these other things

[00:27:08] it's about whether or not she would be okay with living insurance

[00:27:10] so I think that's the deal that they have to make

[00:27:12] for the person he apparently has always loved the idea

[00:27:14] of according to closest friends

[00:27:16] would he be an option for short but again

[00:27:18] it doesn't fall in line with what it is that you've been just trying to build

[00:27:20] now moving on to Thiago Montere the way that you judge a coach really

[00:27:24] is that once your team

[00:27:26] you can always be an underdog for a season a little bit like

[00:27:28] you know your style of play is difficult to play against

[00:27:30] but it's maintaining that for a second season

[00:27:32] then I think actually is one of the hardest things that you can do

[00:27:34] so I'd love to see Thiago Montere for another season

[00:27:36] to really be able to see what he's doing

[00:27:38] at least kind of is his second season

[00:27:40] like a nice season he had a bad start

[00:27:42] but then after his first five games

[00:27:44] I think if you sort of eliminate the first five games

[00:27:46] they had something like the joint fifth best results in the league

[00:27:50] after that sort of betting in period

[00:27:52] which is not so important in the game

[00:27:56] but still there was improvement last season

[00:27:58] I think you can say that

[00:28:00] yeah and he lost some big players

[00:28:02] but it's different objectives

[00:28:04] because you were still sort of being treated as

[00:28:06] the team that no one really thinks is going to be a huge opponent

[00:28:08] right but then

[00:28:10] but once you're going in the Champions League people are now thinking of you as being

[00:28:12] Bologna that could intimidate them and so I wonder if that changes the mentality of

[00:28:16] opposition either way though

[00:28:18] another thing that you always question with coaches who take on big jobs whether

[00:28:20] be into Milan or UV is can they handle egos

[00:28:22] but he would only need to worry about that because you've understood it doesn't have a new

[00:28:26] it doesn't have anybody

[00:28:28] it's probably because he goes up front haven't they to be honest

[00:28:30] to probably think their best is a new player

[00:28:32] but really is just Kaser

[00:28:34] I think Blao has a bit of a strut to him

[00:28:36] I don't necessarily lie that he doesn't back up with the numbers if you ask to

[00:28:38] answer

[00:28:40] Patrick there's a part of me here that really wants to hug you

[00:28:42] thank you because I do feel like the event is

[00:28:48] fan fandoms or the players

[00:28:50] people out there really really do think that these two are like the next coming

[00:28:54] of

[00:28:56] Ronaldo and Tevez or you know

[00:28:58] the event is stalwarts but it's

[00:29:00] based on what statistics that you're looking at or style of play do you guys

[00:29:04] really think that you can judge these players to be anywhere near the like

[00:29:07] so Korean Benzema or

[00:29:08] or any of these true legends of the game anyway

[00:29:10] but he has to deal with these two potential egos but there isn't

[00:29:14] my point is if he is off put by Kaser

[00:29:18] I think people will

[00:29:20] if Thiago Monten Kaser don't work

[00:29:22] I think people will start actually asking questions of Kaser a lot more than they are asking now

[00:29:24] because now it's a little bit like what's going on now

[00:29:28] and you know illegally had these issues

[00:29:30] or that you know the national team is always picking Kaser and Chini didn't always pick Kaser

[00:29:34] you know maybe there is something actually wrong

[00:29:38] so rather than right now we can just play a malagry for every single player making a mistake

[00:29:42] and so this is where I'm interested to see

[00:29:44] although anyone see Rabia for France

[00:29:46] I mean the hideousness

[00:29:48] the actual hideousness that he's actually like ten times better for you than just

[00:29:52] you know like and that's saying something

[00:29:54] so

[00:29:56] smooth on because I'm conscious that we've been talking

[00:29:58] really really quick question just a really big one

[00:30:00] because I kind of mentioned the other side of this

[00:30:04] do you guys see a big future for Max the lekary after event is

[00:30:08] I'm not sure where else he goes after this

[00:30:10] I think when he left last time his stop was high

[00:30:12] and I expect him to get a job in another country at a big club

[00:30:16] and I'm not sure if he likes as good as he did before he came back

[00:30:20] I think you could go to the mid-leash

[00:30:22] No, nobody would take him if he's off

[00:30:24] I think so

[00:30:26] Into would take him if in Zaggy goes of course they would

[00:30:28] I don't see it

[00:30:30] I don't see him

[00:30:32] as for Napoli they've got so many appointments wrong

[00:30:34] I don't think they're immune to everything that is being written and being said about him

[00:30:38] but I just want before we move on I wanted to make one final point about Tiago Mott

[00:30:42] and the issue for

[00:30:44] the issue for Belonio I think

[00:30:46] is that if you qualify for the champion

[00:30:48] so that's actually when you need to strengthen the team

[00:30:50] and they've got some of their players that he's really improved

[00:30:52] Ferguson and ZXA amongst others

[00:30:54] if they were to be then sold on

[00:30:56] and ZXA there's that 50%

[00:30:58] sell-on clause that buy and have

[00:31:00] and Ferguson there's a lot of interest in him from Juventus amongst others

[00:31:04] Then you're struggling because not only do you need to manage three games a week

[00:31:08] you need to try and manage that European campaign

[00:31:10] but you also need to stay competitive domestically

[00:31:12] and I could see almost Belonio doing a little bit

[00:31:16] what Leicester did after they won the Premier League

[00:31:18] whereby you just

[00:31:20] I think Leicester made the quarterfinals of the Champions League in that season

[00:31:22] and I think Belonio think okay we're going to enjoy our European campaign

[00:31:24] and we're going to accept for a season that we might even finish in the bottom half

[00:31:28] we're not going to go down but it's unlikely

[00:31:30] we'd qualify for Europe again

[00:31:32] Belonio three-0 winners against Alenio Tano and forgot to

[00:31:34] preface our chat about them with their victory

[00:31:36] and if you haven't seen the goals

[00:31:38] they're wonderful the first two in particular

[00:31:40] or Solini bringing down a 60-yard breaking ball from Cali

[00:31:44] You haven't talked about Latio

[00:31:46] and then a lovely goal from Salamack

[00:31:48] Let's talk about Latio because

[00:31:50] Igor Tudor, unlike Alegri

[00:31:52] had five days to work with his team pretty much

[00:31:56] in terms of training sessions

[00:31:58] appointed during the international break after

[00:32:00] Martel Scherloh had been caretaker for Latio

[00:32:02] and they went at Frausino on it

[00:32:04] and he has some very bold ideas about football

[00:32:06] you know he's as similar to Gaspirini and Eurich

[00:32:10] and that he likes this sort of man

[00:32:12] against man all over the pitch will be it

[00:32:14] it's quite different to them

[00:32:16] everyone was expecting which was the three-four-two

[00:32:18] one it was more of a four-four-two

[00:32:20] and what I was impressed about was

[00:32:22] how he spoke before the game and how his players

[00:32:24] seem to be very receptive of that

[00:32:26] Nikki he said before the game

[00:32:28] I want my players to be bold, to be brave, to try

[00:32:32] and implement the new ideas that we're bringing through

[00:32:34] even if that means they don't come

[00:32:36] off I'll take the fall for that

[00:32:38] but I want to see them trying to do it

[00:32:40] and I think Latio did try to do it

[00:32:42] they created a lot of chances

[00:32:44] yeah and I think there is some

[00:32:46] it's really sort of dangerous to make sweeping conclusions after one game

[00:32:50] but there's things that you saw

[00:32:52] you saw them pressing hard at the pitch

[00:32:54] you saw them making challenges

[00:32:56] you saw that sort of desire to like use

[00:32:58] they set the tempo and to be aggressive

[00:33:00] and I think those are things that

[00:33:02] you sort of get immediate clues about what sort of team

[00:33:04] you're trying to be

[00:33:08] again I sort of

[00:33:10] I think there's just so much in this team

[00:33:14] that needs to be stripped out and rethought about

[00:33:16] there's just not many players in this team

[00:33:18] individually who I'm particularly impressed by

[00:33:20] started this game obviously with Castigianna

[00:33:22] sub-front is that

[00:33:24] with a certain amount of

[00:33:26] well we know he's more than as hitting a certain age

[00:33:28] we also know he might not be here next season

[00:33:30] is that the choice you're going to make

[00:33:32] but I just

[00:33:34] there's so much in his squad that doesn't impress me

[00:33:36] and it's always a bit of a sort of

[00:33:38] like for me when I'm watching Lanzion

[00:33:40] thinking of like Philly Bianson was good

[00:33:42] not because Philly Bianson is bad

[00:33:44] he's a solid player but I think he's

[00:33:46] he's really not a star Philly Bianson

[00:33:48] and I think that if that's the player

[00:33:50] who's catching my advice he's not

[00:33:52] not boating the well for the rest of the team

[00:33:54] but I think you got

[00:33:56] yeah as you said Patrick there's intent in it

[00:33:58] there's intent in it and it's

[00:34:00] he might play as bought in and I think for game one

[00:34:02] that's all you can ask for as a new manager

[00:34:04] Actually Patrick can I ask you a question

[00:34:06] because the comments that he and me

[00:34:08] do you got you did? Like does anyone else

[00:34:10] I need to preface this by saying I absolutely adore

[00:34:12] this man I would have loved this man who have taken

[00:34:14] over after being able to I mean I'm

[00:34:16] I love you go to do but there was something about some of

[00:34:18] his speeches about starting from scratch

[00:34:20] I don't know if there was enough respect for

[00:34:22] Sadie's work if that makes sense

[00:34:24] I feel like a lawyer with you

[00:34:26] I think there were quite a few sort of

[00:34:28] yeah I think there are some snotty remarks there

[00:34:30] you know saying the players have been working

[00:34:32] under a system for two and a half years

[00:34:34] of pretty revolutionary to them it's like well

[00:34:36] if you actually look at your respective careers

[00:34:38] and trophy cabinet Sadie's achieved a lot more

[00:34:40] I think yeah left a little bit of

[00:34:42] the bad taste to be honest so yeah

[00:34:44] I read those comments the same way as you

[00:34:46] second last year I need to remind him all the time

[00:34:48] last year was second last year

[00:34:50] they were not um

[00:34:52] struggling for most of the sary time in charge

[00:34:54] he just ended our sound out

[00:34:56] also like they've played some really

[00:34:58] great matches like as an even

[00:35:00] even like even in the trampuos you can get

[00:35:02] right and it was almost like he the way you talked about it

[00:35:04] was not

[00:35:06] as if Sadie was to blame for everything going on in

[00:35:08] Lancia and rather than carrying on the fact that

[00:35:10] there are some problems anyway just sort of

[00:35:12] came across to me as I didn't enjoy reading those comments

[00:35:14] I was a little bit disappointed by him

[00:35:16] I read a very interesting obviously we've got

[00:35:18] the Rome derby coming up Saturday night at

[00:35:20] six o'clock which is going to be fantastic

[00:35:22] because until a few short weeks ago

[00:35:24] we thought it was going to be the latest

[00:35:26] goldest draw between Maureen and Sarri

[00:35:28] and now I read a very interesting piece

[00:35:30] in Il Missa Gero about

[00:35:32] about Roma and Lazio and about how

[00:35:34] so much of what they do is actually linked to

[00:35:36] one another whereby

[00:35:38] Lazio initially appointed Maureen to your sary almost

[00:35:40] in response to the fact that Maureen you had made this

[00:35:42] big splash with Roma and that

[00:35:44] appointment had come out of nowhere etc

[00:35:46] it feels a little bit now like

[00:35:48] albeit sad he did them a favor by resigning

[00:35:50] but the toodore appointment

[00:35:52] slightly younger, bit fresher

[00:35:54] in the style of Daniela D'arossi

[00:35:56] and they also referenced the fact

[00:35:58] that his stuto was signed way back

[00:36:00] when at the you know the new millennium

[00:36:02] because Lazio had won the league

[00:36:04] and it was Roma's response to Lazio winning

[00:36:06] the league and then Roma obviously went on to win

[00:36:08] this goodeto the year afterwards

[00:36:10] I think it's still a long way from having

[00:36:12] a tighter winner from the capital

[00:36:14] I think we had that question

[00:36:16] from one of our listeners

[00:36:18] but let's talk about Roma

[00:36:20] and have one eye as well

[00:36:22] on the derby della capitalet coming up

[00:36:24] a goldest draw against Lecce but a

[00:36:26] goldest draw me know which I think

[00:36:28] flattered Roma all things considered

[00:36:30] Oh absolutely

[00:36:32] I definitely agree with that but

[00:36:34] actually before this

[00:36:36] podcast started we were having

[00:36:38] a quick chat about some of the games

[00:36:40] and Patrick you said that you are actually quite

[00:36:42] impressed that it was only a draw

[00:36:44] Patrick Sinc disappeared

[00:36:46] bringing me trauma of how men react to me

[00:36:48] and

[00:36:50] anyway

[00:36:52] I'm very excited

[00:36:54] something along the lines of you are actually

[00:36:56] thought that this could be a potential loss

[00:36:58] and so I need you to tell me why

[00:37:00] because I've been waiting until this point

[00:37:02] in the pod to ask why

[00:37:04] are you not sure about Roma's performance in this particular matter

[00:37:06] Several facts is one I'm

[00:37:08] I like to try and anticipate

[00:37:10] sort of quirky numbers

[00:37:12] and I did the commentary last night

[00:37:14] and I noticed that Lecce had only ever beaten Roma twice

[00:37:16] and both wins for Lecce had come in the month of April

[00:37:20] and yesterday was not only

[00:37:22] the first it was obviously April Fools day

[00:37:24] so I had a bit of a hunch with that and it nearly came off

[00:37:26] had Lecce actually scored some of their chances

[00:37:28] but Patrick Dawg and Robestopy

[00:37:30] calling Nicola Christie which all pretty profligate

[00:37:32] and the other reason why was

[00:37:34] I just looked to the Roma team and I felt pretty uninspired

[00:37:36] Pellegrini was suspended, DiBala wasn't fit enough to start

[00:37:38] they just felt like they were a bit short

[00:37:40] and so it proved

[00:37:42] It's a strange one you often hear coaches

[00:37:44] debating with the media about

[00:37:46] how their team are going to respond

[00:37:48] after an international break particularly

[00:37:50] the bigger teams because so many players go away on international duty

[00:37:52] and Roma just felt very flat

[00:37:54] and it's the first of five games in 18 days

[00:37:58] 6 in 22 they've got that double header

[00:38:00] coming up against Mila which is

[00:38:02] seven days apart and in between they've got the Derby

[00:38:04] they've got a triple denays

[00:38:06] it's going to be a pretty pivotal period

[00:38:08] and Lecce had only the third team to have taken points

[00:38:10] off De Rossi's Roma in the league

[00:38:12] so you know the other two

[00:38:14] Fjordentina and Inter

[00:38:16] but yeah

[00:38:18] it didn't feel like Roma could win the game

[00:38:20] they had a big chance with our wide

[00:38:22] in the second half of the bench

[00:38:24] but I think it had Lecce

[00:38:26] haven't scored now

[00:38:28] from one of their own players in 60 days

[00:38:30] so they're last two goals have come from own goals

[00:38:32] and I think that's the only thing that spared

[00:38:34] Roma a defeat there because they weren't good

[00:38:36] and Lecce is a very difficult atmosphere as well

[00:38:40] Yeah I mean I was thinking before

[00:38:42] about watching a lot of football without goals

[00:38:44] and this is obviously another 90 minutes that goal is

[00:38:46] very different 90 minutes

[00:38:48] and I'm really fine with the game

[00:38:50] Lecce is not new actually

[00:38:52] I think they have the second worst

[00:38:54] difference between

[00:38:56] expected goals

[00:38:58] and goals scored of any team in city other season

[00:39:00] they're very good at not putting the ball in the net

[00:39:02] when they should

[00:39:04] and then they scored as often as they should

[00:39:06] and they probably would not be really in their allegation fight

[00:39:08] and some of that comes down to the realities

[00:39:10] of being a club of more modest means

[00:39:12] they just don't have those

[00:39:14] really efficient finishes there's some really fun players

[00:39:16] they're like like

[00:39:18] Ramadani like Almquist as players

[00:39:20] who are doing good things but who aren't necessarily

[00:39:22] as efficient as they could be in certainly up front

[00:39:24] they're lacking that really sort of a kill-estriker

[00:39:26] they should have won this game

[00:39:28] Roma dodged a bullet

[00:39:30] and I think you can look at that one of two ways

[00:39:32] you can either say

[00:39:34] it's the

[00:39:36] thing that good teams do getting a result

[00:39:38] when they shouldn't

[00:39:40] or you can say maybe

[00:39:42] have over-performed a bit

[00:39:44] I think he's definitely brought some good things

[00:39:46] but I think they've also probably on the other side of that

[00:39:48] extreme consideration where they've got results

[00:39:50] when they haven't always deserved to

[00:39:52] maybe they're going to get a little bit of swing back at some point

[00:39:54] and this was part of it

[00:39:56] Indy Kahnel has suspended for the derby

[00:39:58] that's probably a benefit given how badly played in the first half

[00:40:01] and I think Meena we saw that Baldancey's not ready really to start

[00:40:04] for Roma as well he was pretty underwhelming

[00:40:06] No, Paul Karlsdorp was really a learning in trying to cover

[00:40:10] and to defend

[00:40:12] that whole left side of

[00:40:14] Lecci actually looks like a mini Mealand with Theo and Leo

[00:40:16] but just not with the talent of Leo

[00:40:18] No, no, the first time they played the two together

[00:40:20] I was really impressed with Galo and Dogu

[00:40:22] It was

[00:40:24] yeah it was a really

[00:40:26] they were really fun to watch

[00:40:28] you look at Peacoli, you look at Christopher Vittor

[00:40:30] there's a lot of talent there

[00:40:32] it's amazing how many

[00:40:34] the odds had

[00:40:36] favoured them to... I don't know how to explain it all came together

[00:40:38] it was always bizarre I feel like this happens a lot recently with Tanya and teams

[00:40:42] especially in the Champions League

[00:40:44] but anyway I think that I personally thought that this would be a really easy win for them

[00:40:48] so I was quite surprised by everything

[00:40:50] and the way that things were going also because this is Luca Gotti's second game

[00:40:54] it was a you know they won one Nelligan Salih and Etana

[00:40:56] with the known goal

[00:40:58] yeah and exactly so I didn't expect them to... I mean they are playing

[00:41:02] but I just didn't expect them against this remissite that's full of confidence

[00:41:06] Luca Gotti for Belgium had managed this amazing like three-veller assist and I was thinking

[00:41:10] wow like where did that come from

[00:41:12] and I thought there would be a lot of confidence on the back of that but we didn't see like the best

[00:41:16] Luca Gotti obviously there is an absence of creativity and peregrini and Dibandre

[00:41:20] not being able to play more than a couple of minutes

[00:41:22] so that was always going to be a massive problem

[00:41:24] and so I still thought that the based on energy and intensity potentially

[00:41:28] where Emma can do something they do

[00:41:30] that impeded his looks overwhelmed in midfield as well

[00:41:32] it was very strange to watch that in all honesty

[00:41:34] but yeah I think they actually should have scored a goal

[00:41:36] I'm amazed at how they couldn't... I mean their XG is 1.89 in this game

[00:41:42] so that's incredible and yet you couldn't get it like it... that must be so

[00:41:46] disappointing for them

[00:41:48] but at least you know they maintain the high pressure that we saw on the Diverser

[00:41:52] they've got a great attitude going forward

[00:41:54] and if I see this from them every game

[00:41:58] I hope this day up

[00:42:00] I can say I brought up those numbers

[00:42:02] I was mentioning about the XG because you said it in this game mean

[00:42:04] and like this is going off opters numbers

[00:42:06] but the difference between

[00:42:08] let's just expected goals

[00:42:10] and the number of goals they scored

[00:42:12] is according to opter minus 12.2

[00:42:14] it's that 12.5 goals

[00:42:16] short of where they should be

[00:42:18] the only team worth that is M-body

[00:42:20] and the next team above them actually

[00:42:22] is NAPLE on 9.2

[00:42:24] once it's a big gap between those bottom two

[00:42:26] and everyone else they really are

[00:42:28] scoring at the rate you think is better than team

[00:42:30] we'll get to NAPLE

[00:42:32] it's just cross my mind and hopefully Simon can work his magic in post-production

[00:42:34] that I didn't start the episode by saying

[00:42:36] all about our reminder from every 7 day trials of our chronicles

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[00:42:52] delighted to say I've since

[00:42:54] crossed over the 4th figure threshold

[00:42:56] as well

[00:42:58] 2009 as of counting

[00:43:00] and please give us a 5 star rating

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[00:43:10] quickly because

[00:43:12] I know I'm always conscious of time

[00:43:14] ahead of the Rhone Derby

[00:43:16] in previous editions

[00:43:18] Lats you're getting the edge over Roma

[00:43:20] Sarri seem to

[00:43:22] have

[00:43:24] just the edge over Maureenio

[00:43:26] that we had the spate of tight games

[00:43:28] or 1-0 wins

[00:43:30] Prior to two doors

[00:43:32] a point that I would have said

[00:43:34] Roma would have started as favourites

[00:43:36] given how well they've been playing under Deros

[00:43:38] do you still have the Jalorosius favourites

[00:43:40] they will be the home team in the Derby

[00:43:42] and I know a lot of people think

[00:43:44] that doesn't matter for anything

[00:43:46] because they share a stadium

[00:43:48] I think it does count for a lot

[00:43:50] because it's reflected also

[00:43:52] because out of the window

[00:43:54] you didn't go there

[00:43:56] come on Niki

[00:43:58] you know one of the things that's I'm curious to see

[00:44:00] because I actually think that's not fully true

[00:44:02] but I think one thing that is true about a Derby

[00:44:04] is I think sometimes

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