Juventus v Milan: A Battle of Two Dead Managers Walking?

[00:00:00] At Bet365, we don't do ordinary.

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[00:00:27] Gamblin' Problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER.

[00:00:30] At Bet365, we don't do ordinary.

[00:00:33] We believe that every sport should be epic.

[00:00:36] Every home run, every hit, every inning, every play, from the moments that are legendary to

[00:00:42] the ones that fly under the radar.

[00:00:44] Whether it's a walk-off grand slam or a base hit to center field, whatever the sport,

[00:00:49] whatever the moment, it's never ordinary.

[00:00:52] At Bet365, 21 plus only must be physically located in Virginia.

[00:00:56] Gamblin' Problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER.

[00:00:59] At Bet365, we don't do ordinary.

[00:01:03] We believe that every sport should be epic.

[00:01:06] Every home run, every hit, every inning, every play, from the moments that are legendary

[00:01:11] to the ones that fly under the radar.

[00:01:14] Whether it's a walk-off grand slam or a base hit to center field, whatever the

[00:01:18] sport, whatever the moment, it's never ordinary.

[00:01:21] At Bet365, 21 plus only must be physically located in Virginia.

[00:01:26] Gamblin' Problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER.

[00:01:28] Serea Chronicles is a media chronicles production.

[00:01:33] Hello and welcome to another episode of the Serea Chronicles podcast.

[00:01:42] I'm Meena Rizuki and I'll be your host for today.

[00:01:46] As always, I am joined by none other than Niki Bandini and Patrick Kendrick.

[00:01:51] Hello to you both.

[00:01:52] How are you?

[00:01:53] Good.

[00:01:54] Swinging tea at the exact moment I'm supposed to be replying.

[00:01:58] Very well, thank you.

[00:01:59] Yeah, no tea in sight for me but there you go.

[00:02:02] Patrick, this important question actually as an English native in Italy.

[00:02:07] Do you drink tea more or coffee?

[00:02:10] And if you do go with tea, do you import it?

[00:02:13] Do you have a supplier because it's not always easy to find good tea in Italy?

[00:02:16] No, I drink coffee when in Italy and tea when back in England.

[00:02:20] So I save my tea drinking for when I go back to Blighty.

[00:02:23] There was a time when I used to bring over Yorkshire tea bags.

[00:02:26] Yeah.

[00:02:27] But I found that A, it's quite hard to source a kettle here.

[00:02:30] B, I was too lazy to then heat water up on the stove.

[00:02:34] And C, the water is quite hard in Milan so I found that it just didn't have the

[00:02:38] same taste.

[00:02:40] So a whole host of reasons why I now drink coffee in Italy and tea only when I'm in England.

[00:02:44] So you practice the one in Rome type of philosophy in life.

[00:02:49] It's funny actually, do you guys watch?

[00:02:50] Pretty much.

[00:02:51] Do you watch Ted Lasso at all?

[00:02:53] Either of you?

[00:02:55] I watched a little bit of it and it's weird because it's a sort of thing I thought

[00:02:58] I would enjoy.

[00:02:59] Yeah.

[00:03:00] I even lived in America for two years and that humour often I enjoy and I feel

[00:03:07] like that's sort of I'm the target market for it.

[00:03:10] For whatever reason, it just didn't stick with me and now I have people all the

[00:03:13] time come and talk to me about it especially people who don't actually like

[00:03:16] support football friends and I'd be like, oh did you watch that Ted Lasso?

[00:03:19] Thinking we're going to connect over it.

[00:03:21] And I'll go, I didn't really love it.

[00:03:23] So I think I'm an outlier, I don't know.

[00:03:25] You are an outlier.

[00:03:26] It's like one of my favourite shows ever.

[00:03:28] I've never watched.

[00:03:29] Pretty.

[00:03:30] In it, basically.

[00:03:31] Out of contrariness I think.

[00:03:32] I just thought it's American being told to watch it.

[00:03:36] You and Gab are soul mates.

[00:03:39] Like soul mates.

[00:03:41] That is a huge compliment.

[00:03:44] I'm glad to be in the same sentence as Gab, Mark, Artie to be fair.

[00:03:48] So there we go.

[00:03:49] Thank you.

[00:03:50] Contrarians to the limit.

[00:03:52] Anyway, in the show basically the reason I bought it out is that basically

[00:03:56] they're trying to get him to like tea because he's in England.

[00:03:59] And he's like why would I drink the juice of leaves?

[00:04:04] That's exactly how I feel.

[00:04:06] I'm like I just hate tea with a pageant.

[00:04:10] I am such a coffee drinker that it was...

[00:04:12] Beauty.

[00:04:13] It's true.

[00:04:14] Oh my gosh.

[00:04:15] It's just soggy water that flees.

[00:04:17] I hate it.

[00:04:18] Okay, now enough about tea.

[00:04:20] You're both so wrong.

[00:04:22] Well, I speak for Patrick didn't say hate to tea.

[00:04:25] So it's just you that's wrong actually.

[00:04:27] Sorry.

[00:04:28] It's just you.

[00:04:30] I'm just wrong.

[00:04:32] Team tea, hashtag team tea and then Patrick sitting in the middle.

[00:04:36] Yeah, I am hashtag coffee.

[00:04:39] Coffee, yeah.

[00:04:40] It was really funny because I don't know...

[00:04:42] It has to be in the Apolleton mocha as well.

[00:04:44] Oh, a mocha?

[00:04:45] What about you, Nikki?

[00:04:46] What's your coffee of choice?

[00:04:48] See, I don't drink much coffee.

[00:04:51] Like Patrick, I'm more like to drink it in Italy, but I don't drink much of it.

[00:04:54] Honestly, I don't...

[00:04:56] Psycho.

[00:04:57] Yeah.

[00:04:58] I don't hate it.

[00:05:00] I think if I drink a lot of coffee or even much coffee, I tend to get bad stomach.

[00:05:04] So I just sort of over time decide it's not worth it.

[00:05:07] But yeah, tea all the way.

[00:05:10] So I'm a macchiato.

[00:05:12] Just so I'm clear.

[00:05:14] Ah, okay.

[00:05:15] When I say mocha, what I mean is that I get this little round bottom thing, fill it with water.

[00:05:22] Then I put a little tube, fill it with coffee, screw it on, put it on the hob and then the coffee sort of bubbles out basically.

[00:05:29] I've got everything.

[00:05:30] I know what you mean.

[00:05:31] It's a mocha chocolate though.

[00:05:33] To be honest, you mean it?

[00:05:35] Like actually maybe Patrick can clear this up for us.

[00:05:37] Mocha, mocha.

[00:05:38] When the anglicised mocha involves chocolate, is that just a balsalisation of work or is that...

[00:05:44] I thought mocha was pretty sure that's a linguistic calc to be honest.

[00:05:47] Yeah.

[00:05:48] Because I...

[00:05:49] But I think that's spelt with a C-H is it?

[00:05:54] Because in Italian it's spelt with a K.

[00:05:55] M-O-K-A.

[00:05:56] Unusually.

[00:05:57] But there you go.

[00:05:58] So anyway.

[00:05:59] So I've always...

[00:06:00] I've always drank a macchiato or an espresso, right?

[00:06:05] But then I lived in Spain because I studied in Madrid and I became obsessed with cortados,

[00:06:13] which I like macchiados but they have a teeny tiny, like more of a dash of milk rather than the foam of milk

[00:06:19] and I love them.

[00:06:20] And so I sometimes forget because I always order a cortado.

[00:06:23] I just want to go back in it and I'm like, I can't cut out.

[00:06:25] And he'll be like, what?

[00:06:27] We're in Italy.

[00:06:28] He gets so offended that I would honestly think to order a Spanish coffee, you know?

[00:06:34] And then...

[00:06:35] And he goes over here we call it a macchiato.

[00:06:37] And I'm like, yeah, but it's not really a macchiato.

[00:06:39] It's like kind of...

[00:06:40] Oh, and then I just get into all sorts of trouble.

[00:06:43] But I digress.

[00:06:45] Let's discuss the football guys.

[00:06:47] I'm really sorry that we have gone into this for so long.

[00:06:50] Nice conversation.

[00:06:52] I am interested to know what the likes of Lopategui or Antonio Conte would order.

[00:06:57] But let's talk about the game first because you've entered on Milan in what was probably the most boring 45 minutes of a match

[00:07:05] in the first half that I've ever watched with teams just not even managing shots on target at this point.

[00:07:11] This is the first time that I can tell you you were the better team in a match,

[00:07:16] which is quite rare to see these days.

[00:07:19] Ended in Milneal.

[00:07:20] We're not surprised by this because let's be honest, both these teams are in the midst of a collapse.

[00:07:27] We have been talking endlessly about whether or not Stefano Piorli or Max Leggini would keep their job.

[00:07:33] Most reports indicate so that both of them will be out of a job because their cycles have ended at their respective clubs.

[00:07:41] So I don't know what to expect in terms of performance from these two sides.

[00:07:46] Juventus obviously had played midweek and just managed to escape with a narrow victory against Lazio.

[00:07:54] So coming into this, perhaps I was expecting Milan to be a little bit better,

[00:07:58] but I've been expecting Milan to show a reaction to all of their losses for a while now and I've been left quite disappointed.

[00:08:04] But I guess they do have an alibi in the sense they have many absences.

[00:08:09] As for Juventus, it's the usual.

[00:08:11] Blavage very upset when he was substituted off and all kicks off as usual.

[00:08:16] Now, Nicky, did you watch this match and think to yourself, yes, Allegri and Piorli have to go?

[00:08:26] Or is there anything that makes you think that they should both keep their jobs?

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[00:09:06] We believe that every sport should be epic. Every home run, every hit, every inning,

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[00:09:16] See for yourself when you sign up today and get $150 in bonus bets when you bet just $5.

[00:09:21] Whatever the sport, whatever the moment, it's never ordinary at Bet365.

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[00:09:43] See for yourself when you sign up today and get $150 in bonus bets when you bet just $5.

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[00:10:01] It definitely felt like the end of an era game, didn't it, for both clubs?

[00:10:05] It felt like the end of maybe a chapter more appropriate than an era,

[00:10:09] but it felt like we were coming to the close of something.

[00:10:11] It felt like two teams at the end of a season that I think when we all take a step back

[00:10:16] at the end of the season and look back on it, we might not be quite as damning.

[00:10:19] We've talked about it before in the end, second place for Milan.

[00:10:23] It only feels so bad because Inter are winning the league.

[00:10:25] I think when they finish second, which I expect they will,

[00:10:27] that is not going to be some catastrophic result.

[00:10:29] However, this is in the context of we've just lost the Derby to Inter,

[00:10:33] who won the league against us.

[00:10:35] We've just gone out of the Europa League to another Italian club for the second season running

[00:10:39] and both times perhaps we would have thought we were capable of doing better than that.

[00:10:43] And it feels like a team who's just got nothing really left to say this season.

[00:10:49] And Juventus have felt like a team that hasn't got anything left to say this season

[00:10:53] for weeks, frankly.

[00:10:55] And the Coppa Italia is, I don't know, it's the life of the Corpus of their season,

[00:11:02] still twitching occasionally as the Coppa Italia.

[00:11:04] But really when did we last watch Juventus and feel compelled by them this season?

[00:11:08] It's been a while.

[00:11:10] So yeah, was it really not especially compelling game of football?

[00:11:14] The second half was a bit better.

[00:11:16] Juventus had come to life with some of the substitutions,

[00:11:18] but I think it's been a while since the last season.

[00:11:21] I mean, I don't know if it was some of the substitutions,

[00:11:23] but I feel like the more interesting talking point to me off this game is just

[00:11:27] there's pretty wide acceptance now, I think that Piori is leaving

[00:11:31] and that the Allegri is going to be moving on as well.

[00:11:35] So who do we think are going to be the people coming in and being the next managers?

[00:11:39] And that's had a lot of coverage in the papers the last few days.

[00:11:42] Hattrick, is that...

[00:11:44] I mean, when you look at the names that are right now being bandied about

[00:11:48] when it comes to Piori's job, you look at the Lopatechi,

[00:11:52] you look at Pellegrini has been mentioned,

[00:11:55] Palofon sec has been mentioned, Antonio Conte has been mentioned.

[00:11:59] Baring maybe Conte.

[00:12:01] Would you see any of those as an upgrade on Stefano Piori?

[00:12:04] I'm a big fan of Stefano Piori.

[00:12:08] I think first of all we should probably preface this by saying that

[00:12:12] there's not necessarily equivalency between the situations that you've entered

[00:12:15] with Juventus and Mila in the sense that Piori came in

[00:12:18] and found Mila in the doldrums and picked them up

[00:12:21] and has actually overachieved winning a title.

[00:12:23] Allegri was dining out on the credit he had from his first spell

[00:12:27] and was supposed to be a silver bullet to get Juventus back to competing

[00:12:30] for the Scudetto and it hasn't worked out.

[00:12:32] So I think there's probably less sympathy.

[00:12:34] Both fan bases are a little bit jaded and disillusioned

[00:12:37] with their respective coaches, but in terms of those names you've mentioned,

[00:12:41] I find Italy's quite insular, I think is probably the word for it

[00:12:47] in the sense that typically for coaches doesn't thrive in Italy.

[00:12:51] And the ones that do have often actually done a lot of their development

[00:12:55] in Italy if you think even coaches like Denjeck Zeman

[00:12:59] who's not everyone's cup of tea, who's Czech but then very synonymous

[00:13:04] with the Italian system, Ivan Jurec, now even Igor Tudor.

[00:13:08] There's a lot of these coaches who have only really coached

[00:13:11] and I know Tudor had a spell at Marseille,

[00:13:14] but I didn't mind Paolo von Seker at Roma to be honest.

[00:13:17] Whether he's an upgrade on Piorli, I'm not so sure.

[00:13:20] I think it depends, Milan have to be realistic about their objectives.

[00:13:24] As long as this interside are as good as they are

[00:13:27] and they have this continuity on and off the pitch

[00:13:29] then I think it's going to be difficult for the next two or three seasons

[00:13:32] for anyone to win the title.

[00:13:33] So if you sack Piorli with the hope of someone coming in

[00:13:37] immediately winning the league title, I think that's probably a little bit naive.

[00:13:40] You know, I'm not somebody who likes the eco-sacchee.

[00:13:42] I think I've made it quite clear about some of the thoughts that he makes.

[00:13:45] I think it can be a bit dramatic.

[00:13:48] And yeah, I very much agreed with what he was talking about

[00:13:51] when talking about coaching.

[00:13:53] And he said, I guess at the end of the day there's no point

[00:13:55] talking about names if we don't know what the hierarchy

[00:13:58] looks like at Milan.

[00:14:00] And I feel like this is the problem that we have

[00:14:02] as in you can replace the coach

[00:14:04] but I don't think necessarily that's going to guarantee any victory

[00:14:07] because let's be honest, ten new players have arrived.

[00:14:11] You know, players like Jovic have won, they were on a one-year contract

[00:14:15] so we know they're probably going to leave.

[00:14:17] Jérôme is going to go to LA so we know he's out.

[00:14:20] Ben-Assère, there's loads of rumours of all these players leaving

[00:14:23] so there's probably going to be another influx

[00:14:25] of all new personalities.

[00:14:27] These things can't just change automatically at the end of the day.

[00:14:31] You know, I do agree with what Piolli said in the sense that

[00:14:33] Int has been the best team for several years now

[00:14:36] and this is the second scudetto they won.

[00:14:38] So things take time.

[00:14:40] You don't just necessarily grow a lot unless you do pump a lot of cash

[00:14:44] perhaps in some of the ways that other teams have done so in the past.

[00:14:47] I look at this and I think,

[00:14:49] is this some management that looks like they do?

[00:14:53] Wasn't that the whole problem at the time?

[00:14:55] It just seemed like this was a management that cares a lot about

[00:14:58] your revenue to improve various revenue streams.

[00:15:02] But is this a side that won Milan back to being in the pantheon of greats once again?

[00:15:08] Trying to compete with the Royal Madrid for Champions League,

[00:15:12] do they have the ambitions of what we used to think of as being the great Milan

[00:15:16] and that's what worries me when it comes to coaching?

[00:15:18] Would you agree?

[00:15:21] The problem is like,

[00:15:24] in general this idea that the only way to succeed is by hiring

[00:15:28] the big enough name kind of runs counter to

[00:15:32] I suppose even the learned experience of Milan.

[00:15:37] Erigo Saki was the quintessential example since you bring him up

[00:15:40] meaner of not hiring an obvious name and getting some success from it

[00:15:44] but also Fabio Capello was a manager

[00:15:49] in the sort of Berlusconi business empire as an administrator

[00:15:53] and became something more.

[00:15:57] So the idea that you have to always go for the obvious big names

[00:16:04] is a difficult one.

[00:16:05] I think Patrick's spot on about the insularity of Italian football

[00:16:10] I think there's this belief for a lot of people in Italy

[00:16:13] that Covertizano produces the best managers

[00:16:16] and frankly there's lots of good evidence for it.

[00:16:19] I mean not just domestically but internationally

[00:16:22] we all love Carlo Ancelotti on this podcast

[00:16:25] so we could point to him but you could also point to the fact

[00:16:27] since everyone wants to look at the Premier League

[00:16:30] is the richest and most successful league

[00:16:32] Roberto Mancini's won it, Claudio Ranieri's won it

[00:16:35] Antonio Conte's won it

[00:16:37] but this is a place where actually Italian managers have thrived there as well

[00:16:41] so those things are both true

[00:16:44] and so then you come to the question of

[00:16:48] so what's your answer here?

[00:16:50] If you want to be insular about it and name Italian names well

[00:16:54] who are we talking about other than Antonio Conte right now?

[00:16:58] Who's the available Italian manager with a big enough profile to fit that?

[00:17:02] It's Conte who you know what you'll get with Conte

[00:17:05] you'll probably get at least one very competitive season

[00:17:07] and then you'll get scorched earth afterwards

[00:17:09] that's what you'll have.

[00:17:12] But that's true though isn't it?

[00:17:14] What else has he done? He does it everywhere

[00:17:16] you'll probably win the league because he does that most places he goes

[00:17:19] you didn't do it at Tottenham but this is the history of the Tottenham past

[00:17:23] I can't help myself

[00:17:41] and you get bonus patreon only exclusive episodes

[00:17:45] video episodes and behind the scenes extras

[00:17:48] also be sure to join the new chat community in the patreon app

[00:17:51] and chat with fellow subscribers

[00:18:11] But he does normally win right? That's what he does.

[00:18:18] The other one is really if you want to talk about managers

[00:18:23] who've been places one thing's shown a big profile

[00:18:26] it's Marizio Sari but is he viewed in that way?

[00:18:29] I don't know if he is he's got his own profile

[00:18:32] but he's got his own profile

[00:18:34] and he's got his own profile

[00:18:36] and he's got his own profile

[00:18:38] so it's very important to not just view it

[00:18:41] but to be fair, his profile is the major feature

[00:18:44] and maybe he's given me a lot of praise

[00:18:46] and he's really sure he's been watching

[00:18:49] because he's invoked in that way

[00:18:51] I don't know if he is. He's got his own

[00:18:53] very specific brand and reputation

[00:18:56] that I think perhaps would preclude him from being Meland coach

[00:19:00] and there's trendier picks,

[00:19:02] there's Dissertedbe,

[00:19:03] Do I personally think

[00:19:05] Dissertedbe would walk in there and win a league title

[00:19:07] there is even here a growing sense of looking around and going, is this project still progressing?

[00:19:13] And I think that there's there'd be hazard limitations for me as his coach. I think he's

[00:19:18] he's drilling but he's never quite shown to me that he can do that next step of building something

[00:19:25] really elite. You're such a fan what happened you're falling out of love with this man.

[00:19:31] I still enjoy his football and I think for the clubs of a right profile he can be a very good

[00:19:41] manager. But do I think he's a manager to when you really title? I'm not sure because his teams are

[00:19:46] always too open. His teams are always too open. In fact, if you want me to really name the name,

[00:19:51] if it had to be an Italian manager, there's one obvious name that it won't be because I don't

[00:19:56] think he should move and he doesn't seem to want to move. But it's Gasperini who is a

[00:19:59] manager who's shown he can make more out of what he has than anyone else I think.

[00:20:05] I don't know if it fits at Milan to be honest Gasperini and there's talk of him

[00:20:09] stalling now on a potential contract renewal because he's tempted by Napoli which I think would

[00:20:14] be very interesting to be honest as a proposition. I think it comes with the fact that if the

[00:20:21] Milan hierarchy are going to pander to a sort of groundswell of fans expressing their disapproval

[00:20:26] over a potential appointment then that's just a nonsense and we saw it with Piorli prior to his

[00:20:31] appointment. And this is the thing about coaches all develop at different stages of the career.

[00:20:35] There's no guarantee that someone who's on an output trajectory and necessarily keep progressing

[00:20:39] and similarly there's no guarantee that someone who's had recent failures will necessarily

[00:20:43] continue on that. And occasionally coaches can just fall off a cliff as we've seen with

[00:20:48] Morinho who goes from being elite one day to being quite ordinary the next. But if you

[00:20:53] think about it Piorli had never coached a team for more than 100 matches prior to Milan he's now

[00:20:57] taken charge of them nearly 250 times. He won the league with them after being you know pre middle

[00:21:02] of the road so and I think the problem with Italian coaches is if you keep hiring Italian

[00:21:08] and Italian coaches don't tend to go abroad only the very elite ones do that Nicky mentioned you

[00:21:13] know with concert and cello Saturday albeit that was just for one season then you end up

[00:21:18] recycling the same coaches if and when Piorli loses his job this summer where can he go he's been at

[00:21:24] Fiorentina he's been at Bologna he's been at Inter he's been at Milan you know he could go to Napoli

[00:21:29] there's talk of him maybe going back to Bologna if if Thiago Motta moves on. So ultimately you end

[00:21:35] up having to recycle these coaches and you'll get to the stage where come the end of their

[00:21:39] career you know Conte's already coached Juventus and Inter now you want him to possibly coach

[00:21:44] Milan as well I mean we've seen it in the past with Trappatoni and other big coaches Capello

[00:21:49] this is just a way of things so you either break with the mould and you trust in your conviction

[00:21:53] you see enough but he all of our football people within their decision making process have seen

[00:21:59] enough of him to think that he's a good fit going forward because of what we want to do

[00:22:03] or you say okay well let's just put it to a public vote and the fans don't want Lopateggi

[00:22:08] let's have a vote who you want I think it's a nonsense. You know it's interesting okay so

[00:22:14] just for our listeners basically what's happened is that there's been a lot of names mentioned

[00:22:19] with the with Stefano Piori's job Lopateggi being the most let's say the one that's gotten

[00:22:25] the most headlines it seems like Milan had put him as their number one priority it was going to be

[00:22:30] Lopateggi who by the way was coach of Spain and did a terrific job obviously until he was

[00:22:34] thanked because he agreed to coach Real Madrid and he's since won the Europa League with Sevilla

[00:22:39] and he went to Wolves now by all means he's got a great CV I mean if you've ever watched him play

[00:22:44] he's a very good manager but perhaps he's not the name when you hear when you hear teams like Sevilla

[00:22:50] and Wolves you don't equate Milan with like with that and so the fans have since come out on social

[00:22:56] media and made themselves heard they've signed petitions of not wanting him there's a hashtag

[00:23:01] called nope Pateggi because they do not want Julian Lopateggi to be the next coach of Milan

[00:23:08] now seems do you think there's more to it with Lopateggi I did want to ask this question because

[00:23:13] obviously like we've talked about the insularity thing and I think that's valid and it's true

[00:23:17] but with Lopateggi I just wonder if there's something about his reputation in his brand

[00:23:23] that goes beyond that because there's the whole thing about the taking the Spain job and and

[00:23:29] then the uproar around the timing of that and and I just wondered about

[00:23:37] about his sort of past missteps and how that's been the way he's affected the way he's

[00:23:42] I think that was more viewed you can tell the HSSL can't you from his CV

[00:23:48] listen I think Lopateggi comes with one big problem which I wouldn't want for you Ventus

[00:23:52] like if I'm if I'm I always think with a business mind more than I think of a fan mind

[00:23:57] and if there's a reason why you ask me I wouldn't want Lopateggi the number one reason is his agent

[00:24:01] is Jorge Mendez you invite Jorge Mendez into your into your into your little I mean this is a man

[00:24:09] I've actually had dinner with him in Monaco before I mean this is a man who basically doesn't just

[00:24:14] come with a coach who says you know this is this is my client this is a man who will basically

[00:24:20] take over your entire club he will slowly start to infiltrate your transfer market

[00:24:24] he will bleed you dry and it takes a lot for clubs to basically cancel out Jorge Mendez because

[00:24:31] this is it you know he has one he has a sporting director in his pocket or he has a coach in his

[00:24:36] pocket and then everything will start going through him all the agent deals will start going through

[00:24:40] him you'll find random Portuguese players you've never heard of all of a sudden like starting

[00:24:45] at left back and so this is where you start to worry with Jorge Mendez so but with a Lopateggi

[00:24:51] just in his defense what Spain did was horrifying at the time I cannot believe that they would

[00:24:58] sack their coach I didn't recount that very well it might be worth going back over that for people

[00:25:01] who this is I'm going based on my memory now at the time he was coach of Spain they were about

[00:25:05] to either start a World Cup or a Euro I don't remember it was a World Cup yeah it was 2018

[00:25:11] he had done a terrific job at the time to get them into qualifying and everyone was really

[00:25:15] impressed with his work obviously none more so than Florentino Perez who decided that this

[00:25:20] was a time to you know Ronaldo had just left he wanted to build something special so let's bring

[00:25:26] in a coach who can actually like start developing these players to take over the absence of Ronaldo

[00:25:31] and had spoken to him and he agreed the job to take over Real Madrid I don't know why that would

[00:25:37] affect Spain like it just doesn't affect the Spanish national team and at the time

[00:25:42] it was seen as oh maybe the Barcelona players would be so upset that you're taking over

[00:25:47] and then you know you're like spying or something there was this whole thing where they tried to

[00:25:50] use Barcelona as like a scapegoat to sack Lopategui just before the entire tournament started

[00:25:57] Barcelona players came out the ones who are playing for the national team and said it doesn't

[00:26:01] affect us we want him to stay and unfortunately they didn't listen to them they sacked him

[00:26:07] and look they don't do too badly afterwards obviously in the World Cup but

[00:26:11] it was more there was more anger towards what Spain did than what Lopategui did I mean he's

[00:26:17] allowed to accept a job after he was going to leave the Spanish national team you can't stop

[00:26:21] the man trying to work or choosing what's his in favour but they were angry that he would

[00:26:25] choose this job not discuss with them the ending of his contract so it all seemed a little bit

[00:26:30] much considering what Mancini did to Italy I mean Lopategui was an angel at that point

[00:26:36] but I do feel sorry for him when people recount that because he was the one that was wronged I

[00:26:40] don't feel I feel that way anyway and I feel like a lot of people mentioned that because that was

[00:26:44] the front headline of Marca and everything else I think it was then that he went from that and had

[00:26:50] a pretty unsuccessful stint around Madrid as well didn't he only lasted a few months and and I think

[00:26:55] maybe that just leaves like a you were never going to succeed rightly or wrongly I'm completely

[00:27:00] hearing you talking through a very unsuccessful stint of Lopategui when I covered Portuguese

[00:27:06] he was in charge of Porto for two seasons and he finished second in a two horse race

[00:27:10] three years in a row and he was mocked um funny enough not by George Menj his agent but by another

[00:27:17] George George Jesus who has been Fika coach that mocked him definitely getting his name wrong

[00:27:23] Colliam Lott or Peggy as opposed to Lopategui so he was a laughing stock in Portugal then again

[00:27:29] he was he was Spanish so you know it's a rivalry there as well but uh I've never been overly

[00:27:34] impressed with him and I think a lot of his his work has come from his association with George Menj

[00:27:39] so I also think that to be very again this is the thing that Spanish and Portuguese have like if you

[00:27:45] get into if you get into a Spanish camp and if in any way shape or form they think you might be

[00:27:49] Portuguese they want to punch you in the face so there's a weird thing there yeah like there

[00:27:53] are some serious racism going on between these two countries yeah but with with the Real Madrid

[00:27:58] thing imagine your Real Madrid and you've just lost Ronaldo like the team is never going to

[00:28:03] perform to the same level that you've always played depending on this player up front and then he leaves

[00:28:08] it's not going to be an easy thing and Perez is the kind of guy who's like I don't care if the whole

[00:28:12] team's gone I want my team to win the championship