Acerbi Accused of Racism in Inter v Napoli

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[00:00:29] I'm Alex Rodriguez, and I'm Jason Kelly.

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[00:01:25] Hey guys, Nikki here.

[00:01:31] I originally was going to take an opportunity this week with the International Weech Studio

[00:01:37] to always pick out something from our mailbox to answer.

[00:01:41] But I think it would be a mistake not to have something for the bookcursor

[00:01:48] just addressing everything that's gone on over the last few days with Francesco Achaired.

[00:01:52] I've been feeling super conscious that Meena and I recorded our review of Nappling

[00:01:59] and Zinta right after the final whistle we jumped on together.

[00:02:02] And we really hadn't seen everything that went on between Juan Jesus and Francesco Achaired

[00:02:07] being that game.

[00:02:08] Obviously, a lot came to light after the final whistle.

[00:02:11] So I've been feeling anxious that people might be enlisting to our podcast think why didn't they address that?

[00:02:16] Why didn't they talk about that?

[00:02:17] The honest answer is I don't think any of us really knew quite what had gone on.

[00:02:21] Perhaps we still don't know quite what had gone on but we didn't really have a sense of

[00:02:25] for there had been this big situation between Juan Jesus and Francesco Achaired

[00:02:30] to be until Juan Jesus spoke after the game which again was something that we had...

[00:02:35] We were recording when he was speaking I think so we didn't catch that.

[00:02:39] Obviously there had been something during the game, saw the referee,

[00:02:42] saw Juan Jesus speaking to referee but because play wasn't stopped,

[00:02:45] there wasn't some big interruption.

[00:02:47] It didn't come across to us during the game live that it was quite such a big deal.

[00:02:52] And I guess that's kind of the crux of things in some ways.

[00:02:56] So let's spin everyone back and let everyone make them pay attention.

[00:03:00] Obviously Sunday night, Napoli went into inter and Drew Wannall we talked about the game

[00:03:06] a tiny bit on the podcast we mostly talked about.

[00:03:08] The bigger issue surrounding the clubs wasn't particularly thrilling game two very tired looking teams

[00:03:15] after that Champions League eliminations in midweek.

[00:03:18] But during the second half of the game, Juan Jesus did have this conversation with the referee

[00:03:24] that got picked up.

[00:03:27] Got picked up on TV cameras even as the game was going on this conversation with the referee

[00:03:31] and now with the knowledge of what he said afterwards being more public

[00:03:37] now that we've heard his post-game comments we now know that he was telling the referee

[00:03:41] that he got up and that he was essentially saying Francesco Chatepe had called him un negro.

[00:03:49] Negros is a complicated word, Natalian.

[00:03:52] I've seen people translating it directly as the N word in English.

[00:03:57] I'm not saying that's wrong by the way but I think it's sort of probably important

[00:04:01] to explain in its contextual.

[00:04:04] The word Negros is old Italian so really that's the word that comes from Latin as indeed

[00:04:12] the word for black and Italian does Nero and Negros.

[00:04:15] They come from the same Latin stem and in some cases in the past that word would have been used

[00:04:21] Negros as a fairly neutral adjective just the same as Negros for meaning black but it's contextual

[00:04:27] so it isn't the word that is commonly used for that nowadays and if someone uses it in a sentence

[00:04:34] of calling someone to their face or Negros then I think it becomes fair to translate it more

[00:04:39] like the N word which is what I've seen done in English but I think that's probably important

[00:04:45] to explain just because of the context of what Chatepe then says that he said.

[00:04:51] I'm not saying that to equivocate or to justify it.

[00:04:55] I'm just saying it to try and explain that sometimes when we translate words

[00:04:58] there aren't perfect translations, not every word has this perfect way of putting it across

[00:05:03] from one language to another.

[00:05:05] That's what Juanis was saying to the referee lapen at the time and you can see actually

[00:05:12] when you watch it back and again easier to see when you have this knowledge

[00:05:15] that Juanis is gestures at his arm because for this round of games all clubs in

[00:05:22] Cedia were wearing an anti-racism message on their arm it was one or two rounds

[00:05:26] specifically devoted by Cedia promoting their anti-racism initiative so especially horrible

[00:05:34] timing, not the timing should matter, it's horrible anytime it happens

[00:05:38] but I understand Juanis is feeling in that moment you're asking me to wear this on my sleeve

[00:05:43] and yet this is happening to me on the pitch.

[00:05:46] So after the game you have this situation where Juanis is sort of comes out

[00:05:56] and says he used your ace to face me but then he also says Sonicol, Sonicol is a decan

[00:06:03] but they're things happen on the pitch and it's over, it's done, we leave it on the pitch

[00:06:08] which perhaps in itself wasn't the help for reaction.

[00:06:11] I think Juanis was trying to be the bigger man in some way was trying to just move on

[00:06:16] and not drag this story out but I think in some ways it probably would have been

[00:06:23] more helpful if he'd just been direct and told us at the time exactly what had gone

[00:06:28] because then what happened is...

[00:06:41] I'm Alex Rodriguez and I'm Jason Kelly.

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[00:07:10] This show will explore deal-making across sports, media and entertainment.

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[00:07:16] Sports is not as simple as bringing a bunch of big names together.

[00:07:19] I didn't want to do another stomp you out speech.

[00:07:21] It opened up so many more doors.

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[00:08:02] Because he had said that, it gave a chair to be what I suppose made it easier for a chair to be there.

[00:08:08] The next day you say, oh well, I didn't say anything racist.

[00:08:11] There must have been a misunderstanding.

[00:08:13] Then, here's that and goes, well no, you said something racist

[00:08:18] and puts it out on his Instagram and says,

[00:08:20] I'm not going to let this drop at this point.

[00:08:22] It's one thing to sort of say what you're going to leave it there

[00:08:25] but another thing if you come out and call me a liar

[00:08:27] and say you didn't say something racist is effectively what happens

[00:08:30] and what one is this puts out on his Instagram is,

[00:08:33] I said to me that the way you're going to say so long Negro now

[00:08:37] to translate that as best we can.

[00:08:39] A chair we said to me, go away, Nero, so that's just black.

[00:08:42] That is the modern word for black but go away black person.

[00:08:46] Say so long Negro.

[00:08:48] I'm not going to translate the word Negro

[00:08:50] but I've just given you the best translation I can.

[00:08:53] Again, it's the old word for black

[00:08:55] but in the context that's intense,

[00:08:57] I think it's not a tool I'd prefer to translate that as the N word.

[00:09:01] I think that is indeed what was said.

[00:09:05] It's a phrase that you would certainly take as hostile racist,

[00:09:09] I think, I think that's unambiguously if that's what that was said.

[00:09:12] Then it is.

[00:09:14] I'd try to be denies that he said this.

[00:09:16] I'd try to be as since come out again and his explanation

[00:09:19] of what you said is, he claims he said,

[00:09:23] Tifatronero, which again we can get into literal translations.

[00:09:29] The literal translation of Tifatronero is,

[00:09:31] I'll make you black.

[00:09:32] That sounds pretty much just as bad if you translate it just word for word.

[00:09:37] It's an Italian phrase.

[00:09:39] It's the same as someone in English saying,

[00:09:41] I'll beat you black and blue.

[00:09:43] It's not even as direct frankly as I'll beat you black and blue.

[00:09:46] It's that I'll get you basically.

[00:09:48] And that itself isn't a racist phrase.

[00:09:51] If I share to be telling the truth, I think you can definitely say that's not a phrase

[00:09:55] with intended racial undertones.

[00:09:57] A white person would say that to a white person.

[00:09:59] Again, it's black and blue, which is a concept we have in English as well

[00:10:03] for leaving someone bruised.

[00:10:07] Now we have two versions of the truth of what happened

[00:10:11] and at the time of recording, we haven't had any official getting to the bottom of that truth.

[00:10:16] I'm recording on Thursday

[00:10:18] and the authorities are going to have an audience with both players on Friday.

[00:10:22] We'll see what comes out from that.

[00:10:26] There's been all sorts of attempts to lip-read

[00:10:28] and to observe the things that happened during the game by lots of people since then.

[00:10:35] I think it's, what is clear is you can pretty quickly see when this incident happens.

[00:10:39] It's about halfway through the second half, a little bit less than halfway through the second half.

[00:10:43] They have a clash at a corner and a shadowy ghost of ground.

[00:10:46] He gets up, he says something and then moments later you have,

[00:10:48] why is this going over to the referee?

[00:10:50] We can see that that's when it happened.

[00:10:52] I think it seems that I'm big-uous.

[00:10:55] Why is this certainly heard?

[00:11:00] What he heard was an offensive phrase

[00:11:02] and what's going to be for the authorities to establish the weather or not

[00:11:05] that was a mishearing or whether it was a genuine case of abuse.

[00:11:10] I think that, first of all, again, sorry,

[00:11:13] just to say if people are wondering why this hasn't happened quicker.

[00:11:16] The referee, and this gets to some of the stuff that I can't understand.

[00:11:19] The referee didn't put the incident in his report of the game

[00:11:22] so it's been up to the sporting justice to launch a separate inquiry effectively

[00:11:29] and so it's taken a few days to get everything going.

[00:11:32] I will say, I think there's lots of things that don't feel very well handled.

[00:11:39] Obviously, I think in the game, the referee seems to just try to move past it

[00:11:44] without dealing with it, doesn't stop the game.

[00:11:47] When you think about all the rules we have in place now for stopping games for fans,

[00:11:55] racially abusing players when something like that happens on the pitch

[00:11:59] for there not to be a more serious attempt to get to the bottom of it

[00:12:03] and to deal with it then and there isn't great.

[00:12:07] To not have it in the report, I'm not quite sure why that's happened.

[00:12:10] On the better side of things, I would say I think the Luchana Svalla

[00:12:14] to be at the Italy manager handled his part of this really well

[00:12:17] by immediately effectively saying, yeah, Francesco, I can't be with the national team right now

[00:12:21] isn't going to come to America with us for the games against Fennetsweiler

[00:12:25] and Ecuador, the two friendlies, go back to Inter

[00:12:28] and let us let this play out.

[00:12:30] I think that was absolutely the responsible thing for the manager of the national team to do

[00:12:35] and I'm pleased that's what he did.

[00:12:38] He's since said that he doesn't think this situation is helped by the media speculation around it,

[00:12:43] which I appreciate you might view me as adding to right now

[00:12:46] by having this conversation but I'm just trying to account the situation

[00:12:50] for our English language listeners who might not have been following this story

[00:12:54] in the Italian press and got all that stuff so...

[00:12:57] I think he's really trying to tread a line spell at the end

[00:13:00] and to not take a side until he has all the information.

[00:13:03] He tried to call Juan Aesus as well, which I think was really...

[00:13:06] again one of those things he didn't necessarily have to do

[00:13:08] he's the manager of the Italian national team.

[00:13:10] Juan Aesus is not in the Italian national team

[00:13:12] so he didn't have to make that phone call

[00:13:14] but I think it speaks to who he was two years that he tried to.

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